Resume A to Z and Weird Interview Tests

In this feature-length episode of the Futurizm podcast, we discuss everything resume (or CV!) related. Former Big Tech recruiter Will shares his insider tips and advice, covering everything from common resume mistakes and myths to the role of AI and irksome buzzwords. Who knows, it could make the difference between getting an interview or not! We also look at how salt and pepper, coffee cups and late-night messages could affect your chances of landing a job.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:32 Resume A to Z
• 37:52 Weird Interview Tests
• 47:43 Outro

Transcript

00:14.28
futurizm
Hello and thank you for tuning into the Futurism podcast with me, Peter Scott.

00:22.99
futurizm
ah You nailed it.

00:23.79
Will Grady 
just just for a bit sorry mate just just for farm just for farm it's a blooper can we start again mate can we start again yeah mate right

00:25.27
futurizm
You nailed it. It's all right, mate.

00:29.17
futurizm
Well, as it says in the title, this week, it's a blooper. Do you want to start again? All right then. Okay, go on then mate. I'm just going to leave that in. Right, I'll do the music again.

00:41.48
futurizm
oh

00:55.59
futurizm
Hello and thanks for tuning into the Futurism Podcast with me, Peter Scott.

01:00.35
Will Grady 
and me, Will Grady.

01:02.21
futurizm
As it says in the title, this week we'll be dedicating the episode to everything CV related. So it could be a bit longer than usual. We'll be discussing all the do's, all the don'ts, and giving you practical advice and tips to ensure your CV or resume for our listeners across the pond gets noticed by recruiters. Then we'll also be discussing how salt and pepper, coffee cups, and late night messages could affect your chances of getting a job. More on that a bit later. and But before we dive into the nitty gritty, Will, how's it going?

01:33.25
Will Grady 
All right, not too bad. Can't complain. Well, I can actually, because it's summer holidays and the kids the kids are off school.

01:38.14
futurizm
Go on.

01:40.67
Will Grady 
um So don't get to do any work because the kids are off school. So yeah, I cannot wait for September the 4th. So the kids restart school. And I'm sure many parents are at exactly the same boat.

01:53.02
Will Grady 
This is my first experience of doing it.

01:53.41
futurizm
Well mate, I'm glad you've managed to carve out at least a bit of time to record the potty with me.

01:56.09
Will Grady 
Nice fucking shit.

02:01.99
futurizm
um Are you glad that this time I didn't try introducing you as a thought leader or recruitment extraordinaire?

02:08.47
Will Grady 
I am, because it would have been a lie. But yes, i am I am glad. A more humble kind of approach is always appreciated.

02:19.47
futurizm
Okay, great. Now, just one last thing before we get on with the pod. I wanted to share with you one of the three positive reviews that we got on Apple after the last episode. And it's from JJJFJDJEG and all the rest. I don't think that's his actual name. ah Basically, we don't know who it's from, but here's what they said.

02:41.36
futurizm
Now it's titled refreshing and useful tips for everyone. This was a great discussion to listen to. I like the straight talking style and loads of useful ground covered and only episode two.

02:52.47
futurizm
As a senior public sector director, I thought the early discussion on the whole return to work and post COVID working topic

02:55.37
Will Grady 
Ooh!

03:00.01
futurizm
was very useful and resonates as we need to adapt and stay flexible to ensure we still attract the best candidates. But then flipping the debate on its head, can't agree more with the notion that in terms of the employers and roles our younger emerging workforce aspired to, degrees are just the beginning. You've got to roll your sleeves up and learn and earn your craft. All very well said, would recommend this podcast to graduates and middle ages alike, looking forward to listening to more. So what do you think of that?

03:27.86
Will Grady 
Well, well, so it's okay. So firstly, whoever that was, just to clarify firstly, it wasn't you. No.

03:35.15
futurizm
No, it wasn't me. I couldn't have written it better myself.

03:39.83
Will Grady 
Okay. And it wasn't, wasn't someone called Jonathan who was just pissed, who has got the name wrong.

03:42.56
futurizm
Uh, JJ.

03:44.04
Will Grady 
ah J J J F J. No.

03:47.02
futurizm
Yeah, no.

03:48.59
Will Grady 
Okay. I mean, first, thanks. Thanks for the kind words. Appreciate it.

03:52.23
futurizm
Yeah.

03:52.38
Will Grady 
Um, I didn't know we were. but Yeah.

03:56.04
futurizm
Well, senior public ah the director.

03:56.32
Will Grady 
i'm I'm blown away. I'm humbled. I'm humbled.

03:58.81
futurizm
Yeah.

03:59.01
Will Grady 
Humbled. Thank you for that.

04:00.66
futurizm
Well, um let's hope that we don't disappoint you with this episode, JJJFJDJEG. Let's get on with the show.

04:16.54
futurizm
Right, CVs or resumes. Will, I know these are your bread and butter. How many do you think that you've seen over the years?

04:26.43
Will Grady 
Oh, gosh. Too many, I would say. I think I was probably like, too many.

04:32.12
futurizm
We're talking, are we talking hundreds, thousands?

04:33.13
Will Grady 
Too many. Oh, it took you tens of thousands, man.

04:36.85
futurizm
Wow.

04:36.92
Will Grady 
I mean, if if I take a, I don't know, ah an average role, really, these days, you get ah an application for, you're probably looking at, you know, between two to 500 applications, depending on, obviously, the type of role in the company.

04:49.40
futurizm
Jeez.

04:50.96
Will Grady 
but yeah So if you take that and the portfolio positions, it's got to be tens of thousands. I mean, I'd hate to guess because it actually, it'd be probably quite depressing to understand how many how many resumes I've looked at.

05:04.70
Will Grady 
um But yeah, a lot.

05:06.57
futurizm
Okay, ten...

05:07.30
Will Grady 
Let's just say a lot.

05:08.32
futurizm
Okay, let's say a lot. Let's say tens of thousands. Now, I appreciate that being a recruiter you have a slightly different perspective from me, but as someone on the other side of the table, when I hear the word CV, I just think, and excuse my French, what a ballache.

05:25.40
futurizm
Now it's something that I update when I'm in the market for a new job, which fortunately hasn't been too frequently as of late. And then when I do get around to updating it, I don't have the foggiest where to start. I mean, what format does it take? How long should it be? Is it still two pages maximum? Then how do I sell myself without coming across as an arrogant so-and-so? What do I take out from it?

05:48.32
futurizm
And not only that, but then I have to adapt the CV to each and every job I apply for. And the list goes on. I mean, I think you can tell that I get a bit triggered by the word CV. I remember a couple of years ago, mate, you looked at mine and I still included that I was in the school chamber choir on it. I didn't hear the end of that from you for ages. I have no idea what I was thinking.

06:15.01
Will Grady 
Well thanks for reminding me because I actually had forgotten. um So thanks thanks for prompting me.

06:19.24
futurizm
Damn, I shouldn't have done it. Well, basically, I think you get the idea. I find it pretty stressful, and that's why I put it off. And ultimately, I end up outsourcing it. But I'm hoping, Will, that in this chat, you can help break it down, make it less daunting, and tell us what good resume practice is to ultimately make sure it gets noticed and not thrown in the bin.

06:43.35
futurizm
So Will, as you said, you've seen tens of thousands of CVs or resumes during your time at Google, Meta, Amazon, BP. What would you say are the most common mistakes you've come across as a recruiter? What turns you off straight away?

06:58.89
Will Grady 
Yeah, that's a great question. because so i so So I think going back to your point at first, I think obviously this is my kind of bread and butter. So CVs don't particularly frighten me, although some do. um But ultimately, I get it. I think i think you know there's a lot of people out there. This is a daunting experience. And you know people have got some brilliant experience out there, but they lack the ability to be able to get it.

07:25.38
Will Grady 
on a document, you know, and that's really, really common, you know, finding that balance. You don't want to say too much and be too salesy and too corny and full of yourself.

07:33.73
futurizm
Yeah.

07:35.15
Will Grady 
But at the same time, it's a document that's supposed to kind of market yourself. So you need to have some form of marketability there. I would say in terms of what was really common and turns me off straight away, and it's a bit of a frustration, but it's probably the most common thing.

07:53.99
Will Grady 
is that people have an inability to be able to articulate their achievements.

07:57.94
futurizm
Yeah.

07:58.07
Will Grady 
they lit They just tell me, hey, I work as a software engineer, and this is what I do every day. And that's kind of not educating me at all about you know what you've achieved, the outcome of your work,

08:13.99
Will Grady 
It's not telling the hiring manager anything. Honestly, the amount of times I've spoken to hiring managers who've just said to me, well, why are they telling me this?

08:19.15
futurizm
Yeah.

08:20.87
Will Grady 
Like I'm a software engineer. I know what software engineers do. So I think it's really common for basically people to just regurgitate what their responsibilities are on a document and not focus on what they've achieved, the impact of their work.

08:36.93
Will Grady 
That's a big turn off because it's just like, what a waste of paper.

08:41.11
futurizm
Yeah, I mean, I think I was guilty of that when you looked at my CV a couple of years ago. I mean, you know, I think mine was just a list of my responsibilities, which is sort of, that was what I was expected to do as the bare minimum in the job.

08:54.52
futurizm
but And as you said to me many a times, you have to quantify the value you bring to the role with facts and figures but I assume that's probably a bit easier for people who are working in say sales for example where they can bring concrete numbers and percentages and highlights I don't know increases in profit for example but what say if you work as I don't know a video editor or a cameraman in in the media industry where it's a bit more difficult to quantify what you brought to that role.

09:21.59
Will Grady 
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you can't quantify everything. And, you know, I get that. But there are also kind of examples where you can, you know, talk about, you know, the development of people or, you know, coaching or running workshops or training people.

09:34.56
Will Grady 
But again, if you look at things like, I don't know, working in in the media, you know, it could be the amount of views that your that your video got, or, I don't know, the amount of watch time or the

09:47.04
futurizm
or a difficult business trip maybe where you're in challenging conditions.

09:51.27
Will Grady 
Yeah, I just think um always try and focus on, you know, actually, okay, so I started that particular project, and I did that particular piece of work, and I'm really proud of it. And the outcome was this, and it could be, you know, the outcome was that, you know, you received some outstanding achievement award, or you got some internal prize at work for, if you were with contribution. It doesn't always have to be numerical, data-driven. Of course, that's useful.

10:18.28
Will Grady 
because data is factual, but at the same time, you just always think about, well, I did that job.

10:19.87
futurizm
Mm hmm.

10:24.27
Will Grady 
What was the impact of that job that I did? What was the work? It could be, you know, I therefore increased productivity or, you know, you can't, you don't have to add, you know, a percentage to it all the time, but always focus on the output.

10:36.62
futurizm
Right. OK, OK, mate, just a quick aside, make sure your mouth's always facing the microphone. I think I can hear when you turn away sometimes. um

10:49.41
Will Grady 
Got you.

10:50.01
futurizm
Yeah, yeah, I'll cut that out, mate, anyway. So it's a a resume that to this day you remember for being outstanding, or have you just seen too many?

10:59.90
Will Grady 
Yeah, I've seen too many, definitely. I can't pinpoint one that I thought fell in love with and held onto for the rest of my life.

11:08.70
futurizm
Framed in your bedroom.

11:10.01
Will Grady 
Yeah, yeah not not really. um And also, that would be kind of sad. um but I mean, just basically an outstanding resume, that's important, we can go through it in um in a moment, you know, what kind of good looks like.

11:22.51
futurizm
Yeah.

11:23.98
Will Grady 
But if you've got an ability to kind of show some charisma, be human, and ultimately, you know, quantify and really concentrate on the output of your work, you're going to be in a good place.

11:36.68
futurizm
So we're getting down to the basics of CVs or resumes. What is the ideal length? I remember I think we were always told two pages max. Is that true?

11:48.48
Will Grady 
No, it's not true. um And I absolutely hate it when people come up to me and say, oh, I need my resume on one page. So why? So you're you you're basically wanting to shoehorn all your experience into one page.

12:02.80
Will Grady 
what Why?

12:03.61
futurizm
Yeah.

12:04.32
Will Grady 
So yeah, let's address this, because this is a bug bear.

12:08.55
futurizm
Go on.

12:09.27
Will Grady 
And I'm going to apologize to my dad in advance, actually, because I had a conversation with my dad in the week. And he said to me, what why are you swearing on the podcast?

12:16.78
futurizm
Oh, John Boy.

12:17.03
Will Grady 
um

12:18.88
futurizm
Sorry, John.

12:20.01
Will Grady 
And he was a bit he was a bit traumatized by it, which is funny because he's got a mouth like a sailor. um But you know, but but ultimately, yeah, I like to swear.

12:26.32
futurizm
Because he was his little angel.

12:34.89
Will Grady 
Sorry. Yeah. So the ideal

12:36.87
futurizm
ah You feel very strongly about cv CV lengths as well.

12:40.58
Will Grady 
ah de This is a very swearable topic. you know if if if this If there's ever a topic that needed profanity, it's this one.

12:43.18
futurizm
Okay.

12:47.24
futurizm
Right.

12:47.63
Will Grady 
the so There's no no ideal length of a CV.

12:47.63
futurizm
Go on. Unleash.

12:51.51
Will Grady 
It's fucking myths and hocus pocus and bollocks.

12:53.95
futurizm
Mm-hmm.

12:58.22
Will Grady 
If you've got one year experience, you're not going to put it on five pages, are you? unless ah you know And if you've got 25 years experience, you're probably not going to put it on one page.

13:02.57
futurizm
No. No.

13:08.26
futurizm
No.

13:08.46
Will Grady 
so kind of common sense. So I would say typically, it's quite common to see people have a Yeah, more than likely, you're kind of right. You know, two pages is kind of the norm.

13:19.57
futurizm
Yeah.

13:22.23
Will Grady 
Because, you know, even if somebody's got 2025 years experience, they may have, you know, the, the experience from the beginning of their career, they'll make it really, really succinct.

13:32.94
Will Grady 
And you don't need to go into detail there.

13:32.92
futurizm
yeah

13:34.58
Will Grady 
So it ends up going into two pages. One page is a myth. It's an absolute myth unless you are an intern or a graduate or you literally have zero professional experience and you just want to talk about i know what you're doing in your spare time, your projects, voluntary work, whatever it may be. But generally speaking, ideal length of the CV is really down to common sense, the amount of time that you've been working in your professional life. But I would say Don't be frightened to go into two pages.

14:02.30
Will Grady 
I hate this kind of anxiety and fear that people have, like, oh my god, it's gone into two pages.

14:05.38
futurizm
Yeah.

14:07.62
Will Grady 
And I'm like, so what?

14:10.04
futurizm
like I guess they feel they might be ruled out straight away if they they go into two pages.

14:13.76
Will Grady 
that's That's just not not the case. I've never rejected any candidate. And I don't know anybody that's rejected a candidate who've gone into two pages. So please, let's lose this anxiety around onep pages one page, should I say.

14:26.53
futurizm
and Okay. Well, that's good. and And what structure would you suggest? There's obviously a plethora of free CV templates out there and I wouldn't even know where to start. I mean, what font do you even use? Are you a Cambria man or do you lean more towards Garamond Will?

14:45.45
Will Grady 
sound like kind of biscuits, don't they?

14:46.91
futurizm
so Yeah.

14:48.52
Will Grady 
um So firstly, the the CV templates out there.

14:52.37
futurizm
Mm-hmm.

14:52.65
Will Grady 
um I mean, it's nice to see a ah beautiful CV or you know something. I like to see people that get creative on the CV because it means that they kind of thought about it.

15:06.48
Will Grady 
And you know they like to inject a bit of color or a bit of style to the CV resume.

15:10.70
futurizm
try and stand out yeah

15:12.59
Will Grady 
Yeah, I like that because it shows they care. but On the flip side of that, recruiters don't always like it, because more often than not, the structure of a very beautifully designed resume is quite crap.

15:26.12
Will Grady 
And ultimately, you just want, they call it the Ivy League Standard, and it's really a very simplistic flow of, basically, it's a waterfall flow from top to bottom of you you know basically who you are, a summary of of you know your experience, um headline,

15:35.75
futurizm
I'm trying to stand out, yeah.

15:43.84
Will Grady 
and then really getting into your professional experience. And then ultimately at the bottom of the resume, you'll have your education, any certifications, potentially yeah other interests and things like that.

15:52.50
futurizm
Chamber Choir.

15:55.48
Will Grady 
Yeah, exactly. Chamber Choir, chess, all the good stuff.

15:59.03
futurizm
Yeah. so is that So is that important? I mean, not important, but I mean, is that important to a recruiter if you have Chamber Choir or chess, or is that just, I mean, are you interested in that?

16:09.80
Will Grady 
No. um We're not. I mean, I don't want to discourage people not to show their personality in hobbies or things like that. um Some recruiters might say, you know, encourage you to kind of go, you know, put down that you like running or you like to, I don't know, play baseball at the weekends or go to soccer games for your kid or you coach soccer or whatever it may be. But honestly,

16:37.80
Will Grady 
it's not really very important. I would say if you want to have other information at the bottom, you know, anything that, you yeah know, maybe where you're giving back something to society, so it could be voluntary work or teaching, or it could be, you know, working in underprivileged communities, anything like that, or you might be, you know, working for a nonprofit or a charity, but at the same time, I just, yeah, I don't think anybody's really too bothered about your, your singing skills buddy from, I don't know, 20 odd years ago.

16:48.67
futurizm
Yeah. Mm hmm.

17:04.86
futurizm
What a shame. I mean, yeah, neither am I, really. And I wouldn't even call them singing skills, to be honest. um It's funny you should mention hobbies, actually, because I was having a discussion last night with my my brother and a mutual friend of ours, and we all went to the same school. And my brother's friend, he's been playing World of Warcraft now for a very, very long time.

17:27.08
futurizm
and I think he's the head and I don't know the the terminology, he's the head of a clan and I think they go on not adventures but missions or something and I think they're quite involved and he leads these missions so he delegates responsibilities And you know I think that it requires a lot of thinking on his feet, a lot of leadership skills, um a lot of adaptability. and But I guess you know a recruiter wouldn't appreciate the skills involved in maybe a computer game.

18:00.54
Will Grady 
So just to clarify, so that's this is all in a digital world. Yeah, it's not.

18:04.40
futurizm
This is all in a digital world of Warcraft.

18:07.10
Will Grady 
OK, I thought I thought he's kind of like doing reenactments and stuff in like the forest or something like that.

18:10.34
futurizm
No. No.

18:11.74
Will Grady 
OK.

18:11.95
futurizm
No.

18:13.64
Will Grady 
I'm just going to be really blunt on that. No one gives a shit. Sorry.

18:18.83
futurizm
Okay. All right. Next question then. Okay. Fair enough. um Now I remember that I hired a professional CV writer around 10 years ago now it wasn't you Will and I got it back and not only did I have to go through it and correct basic grammar mistakes and clumsy phrasing I found it had been completely rewritten in the third person.

18:41.24
futurizm
So it said, Peter is a highly respected international journalist. I was like, you what? I mean, not only the highly respected bit, but ah it was such an odd way to talk ah to talk about myself.

18:50.35
Will Grady 
Yeah, that's a lie.

18:54.48
futurizm
And I did challenge the lady who wrote it for me. And she said, apparently that was the thing to do at the time. Do CV trends change? And how do you keep on top of them?

19:08.53
Will Grady 
cv trends tree a do CV trends change. um I mean, I think I think they will. I mean, I think fundamentally, I mean, it's a you know, it's, ah it's a document to talk about your experience, isn't it?

19:24.43
Will Grady 
So, you know, I suppose, ultimately, if you look at what's experience, it's professional experience.

19:25.22
futurizm
Yeah.

19:31.44
Will Grady 
But you know, I think there is definitely more interest these days about about kind of the, the projects, perhaps that you might be doing outside of work. um I think definitely in the tech world, there's a lot of interesting, the personal projects you may be doing.

19:48.13
Will Grady 
So you might be creating your own app, you might be, you know, writing software for something that's really cool outside of work, you might be doing something with a website. So I think the trends in the tech world is that it's not always professional experience.

20:03.40
Will Grady 
I think definitely there's an interest in what you're doing outside of work.

20:04.08
futurizm
Yeah.

20:07.77
Will Grady 
And I think, generally speaking, even outside of tech, there's an interest about what you're doing outside of work.

20:12.58
futurizm
Okay.

20:12.68
Will Grady 
um But I wouldn't say anything else. I mean, it sounds like unfortunately you picked a bad one because third person, no, I mean.

20:22.60
futurizm
Very odd, very odd. I would never write my own CV in the third person. But that's proven that there are certain risks to outsourcing it. How would you suggest mitigating them if you use a professional CV writer?

20:36.64
Will Grady 
Come to me. um yeah's That's a great way to mitigate it if I'm honest, but turn i'm I'm teasing. but ten

20:47.21
Will Grady 
Yeah. I mean, it's really, obviously there's some really good CV writers out there, resume writers. And this is kind of a, this isn't a plug, a direct plug or in it or an indirect plug.

20:58.88
futurizm
Mhmm.

21:01.04
Will Grady 
It's just an honest, candid assessment. There's a lot of good people out there and, you know, doing a really good job and I'm sure helping their clients.

21:05.14
futurizm
Yeah.

21:09.97
Will Grady 
But like anything, you know, be it if you go and try and find somebody who's going to help you with your social media strategy or somebody that's going to help you with your I don't know with your Yeah, there's some good, bad and ugly.

21:18.31
futurizm
Marketing. Mhmm.

21:21.48
Will Grady 
And there's some really, really fucking bad and ugly resume writers out there who don't charge a lot of money, they're very competitive in price, probably because they more than likely you run it through AI.

21:35.79
Will Grady 
And they're not very experienced in it. And all I would say is just just edge on the side of caution of people that offer super value for money for writing a resume, because writing a resume takes time.

21:45.57
futurizm
Yeah.

21:48.35
Will Grady 
And that's why the people that charge yeah usually a pretty penny is because you're buying their time, you're buying their expertise. um So I would say, yeah, watch out for people that perhaps don't have working experience in their particular in that particular domain.

22:06.78
Will Grady 
So you know there are good people out there that haven't worked in recruitment, but you know are certified resume writers or have been doing that all their career, and I'm sure are very, very good.

22:06.95
futurizm
Yeah.

22:17.09
Will Grady 
If it was me, I would kind of be looking for somebody that's got tangible experience of working in that domain.

22:22.74
futurizm
Yeah.

22:22.90
Will Grady 
know If you want to go and hire an electrician, you want somebody that's more than likely worked as an electrician before to go and do sparks. um you know You're not going to go and hire an electrician basically pretends to be an electrician or tries to be an electrician in their spare time. I'm not saying these people aren't good, but for me, I feel going to get somebody who's actually got tangible real world experiences is important.

22:49.00
futurizm
Yeah, well, that would be logical. To what extent does CV best practices change depending on the country you're applying for the job in? I know you've worked in in Russia, well, you've worked in Austria, the UK.

23:01.86
futurizm
I believe in Switzerland, for example, they tend to include a picture. And I guess we could do a whole podcast on the pros and cons of including a picture in your CV, but how does it vary from country to country?

23:13.39
Will Grady 
Yeah, they they love a picture in Europe.

23:15.88
futurizm
That's so odd.

23:16.19
Will Grady 
They love a picture in Europe. Yeah, and Germany, particularly. um Yeah, Spain, Italy.

23:23.26
futurizm
that That's why did it like a picture?

23:24.77
Will Grady 
Yeah. I don't know, you know, because it is odd, because, you know, my initial reaction would be that that kind of creates unconscious bias.

23:34.02
futurizm
Well, that's what I was thinking, yeah.

23:34.29
Will Grady 
um You know, and If somebody sees you know a picture of somebody i don and it's covered in tattoos, or I don't know, just doesn't appeal to them, then I don't know.

23:42.99
futurizm
We talked about that.

23:46.57
Will Grady 
But yeah, you we have talked about it. But yeah, it just creates...

23:48.32
futurizm
Is it like is it like a a passport picture?

23:52.24
Will Grady 
not No, usually it's a bit more um glamorous than that. It's usually like a proper like you know professional headshot.

23:59.97
futurizm
Wow.

24:01.19
Will Grady 
It's quite usually a professional picture. More often than not, it's usually a professional picture. so Obviously, that's the norm in Europe. And ah yeah, I mean, personally, I mean, we've seen the UK, we don't have pictures on. I mean, sometimes I'll receive resumes with pictures on in the UK, not too often. um But I think that's what the LinkedIn is there for. Yeah. I mean, you're supposed to put, you know, your LinkedIn profile goes on your resume on the top where your contact details are. Yeah. Little tip, always put your LinkedIn um profile on your resume.

24:35.15
Will Grady 
And that basically allows the recruiter to then click on the LinkedIn profile, um go and see more than likely a picture of you, um you know and it kind of humanizes things.

24:35.09
futurizm
Mm-hmm Yeah

24:45.48
Will Grady 
But it kind of makes it their choice. They don't have to do that. um Yeah, i'm not I'm not so sure about photographs purely on the basis that I do believe that that is going to cause unconscious bias.

24:59.00
futurizm
Yeah, it would seem like that. um Is LinkedIn a carbon copy of your CV? What's the main differences between your LinkedIn profile and your CV?

25:08.52
Will Grady 
Well, your LinkedIn profile is you know is basically a tangible you know document. I suppose it can be a hard copy document, although I suppose nobody really prints out their CVs these days or their resumes.

25:20.65
futurizm
No.

25:20.95
Will Grady 
um But at the same time, it tends to go into a bit more granular and experience or granular detail about your experience.

25:31.42
futurizm
Mm-hmm

25:31.66
Will Grady 
LinkedIn, it's more informal, but you know it is, ah I suppose a digital passport really of of your career. But also, you don't have to go into enormous detail on LinkedIn.

25:39.72
futurizm
Got you Mm

25:43.16
Will Grady 
So, you know, some people just like to have company and their title, they don't go into enormous detail about what they were doing. um But yeah, there's there are other things obviously on LinkedIn that you could do.

25:53.73
Will Grady 
So you got you you have a banner in the background, you can play around with

25:53.80
futurizm
-hmm

25:58.10
Will Grady 
you know, more creative aspects of presenting yourself. I think the two or two of them go hand in hand, but from a decision making perspective, the decisions are usually made around your resume, not your LinkedIn profile.

26:09.48
futurizm
Interesting, interesting. You're a specialist in careers for candidates, CVs, resumes for candidates applying to big tech firms. Are they much different to other industries?

26:24.92
Will Grady 
and

26:28.40
Will Grady 
Yes and no, I mean, yeah, obviously people that are applying to big tech firms, in terms of they the experience,

26:40.73
Will Grady 
I think there's probably more of an open mind in this, in my opinion, about what you're doing outside of work, because for example, in tech, you may not be, you know, you might be studying certain certifications and pragmatic practical skills, you might be at bootcamp,

26:58.20
Will Grady 
all this kind of good stuff outside of your professional life, which, which may give you an advantage.

26:59.63
futurizm
Yeah.

27:05.14
Will Grady 
I would say perhaps, and you know, I've worked in oil and gas industry, you know, they're looking for very, very solid, real world tangible experience, they're a bit more conservative, I would say, and I would imagine it's probably the same in things like financial services.

27:11.11
futurizm
Mhmm.

27:19.03
Will Grady 
So I think, and obviously, I'm going to say this somewhat because I'm biased, but you know, I think the big tech or the technology industry is bit more progressive and open minded around that.

27:31.57
Will Grady 
And they are have more of a sort of yeah progressive agenda of looking at diversity of thought and looking at people from different backgrounds.

27:40.12
futurizm
and Okay.

27:40.32
Will Grady 
Of course, I think every sort of industry would admit that they they need to improve that. But I think big tech is ahead of, you know, other industries in that area.

27:51.48
futurizm
And how important is it to adapt your resume to each job you apply for? Because that seems just like a job in itself.

28:00.90
Will Grady 
Yeah, I think it's an emotive topic. Lots of people have opinions that yes, you should tailor the job. So you should tailor your resume for each job that you apply for. For me, that feels a bit disingenuous.

28:14.35
futurizm
Right.

28:14.61
Will Grady 
ah

28:15.27
futurizm
Why is that?

28:16.64
Will Grady 
Well, I don't know, it just feels like. Well, we want to see your experience and you know, I don't know, maybe I'm old school, but I just believe that, you know, you've you want to write about your career.

28:30.13
Will Grady 
and you want to express what you've done clearly and what you're proud of. And it feels like you're kind of blurring the lines a little bit when you start to move things around to kind of get traction on certain things. And you know I think the best thing to do is probably look at two or three roles. Yeah, look at two or three roles where you know you think you're typically you know look to apply for and just kind of try and find a happy balance between the three.

29:03.35
futurizm
Yeah.

29:03.43
Will Grady 
i'm not saying I'm not saying don't tailor it, but I don't think you know necessarily you should be doing it every time you apply for a role. I just don't think that's correct.

29:15.35
Will Grady 
i just i just

29:15.58
futurizm
I mean, that's that's so daunting, isn't it? Going through your CV and matching it against every point in the role and imagining that you could just not hear back from the recruiter after you spent, I don't know, hours working on it.

29:28.19
Will Grady 
But I think importantly as well, I mean, sometimes, and, you know, in a job description, it's kind of a saying, and I don't know exactly who said it, but it's a general kind of saying within recruitment and HR that, you know, if you're 100% qualified to do that job, you probably shouldn't be applying for it.

29:47.09
Will Grady 
You need to stretch yourself.

29:48.78
futurizm
Yeah.

29:49.05
Will Grady 
So if you see a job description that, you know, you're not, you know, really ticking every single box, Don't worry about that too much. i mean Because honestly, a recruiter and a hiring manager aren't expecting you to have 100% of the criteria. They'd like you to have a fair bit of it. Don't get me wrong. But you know you need to have a little bit of a challenge. so I don't know. For example, if there's a particular you area of technology or software that you haven't had exposure to, but you've got exposure to other technologies, and you've quite clearly illustrated that you're a quick learner, and you like to learn and develop,

30:26.44
Will Grady 
then they're just going to go, well, hey, look, we can teach you that. We can get you on a course. We can upskill you and train you on that. No problem. So I think, again, there' this like we're going back to the one page resume. you know I think there's also this anxiety and fear from a lot of candidates that, hey, I need to be absolutely perfect for this job. And I need to make sure that my resume is absolutely matching the keywords. I don't think that's the case all the time. I really don't. Of course, we want something that's not far off.

30:55.65
Will Grady 
but

30:55.59
futurizm
Yeah.

30:56.31
Will Grady 
It doesn't have to be absolutely on the money and there needs to be, you know, but be get comfortable with that.

31:04.31
futurizm
Well, talking about adapting your resume or your CV, something I found out about recently, probably a bit too late actually, it was applicant tracking systems or ATS. What are they and how on earth do I optimize my resume for them?

31:21.33
Will Grady 
Oh, applicant tracking systems tend to be, um something that most people hate, um they're ultimately an internal database for a a company or a recruitment business, which are basically storing the applications of people that apply.

31:43.07
Will Grady 
um There are all kinds of applicant tracking systems out there. um Again, i there is a fear. and is you you you You started to realize that a lot, you know actually,

31:51.66
futurizm
Yeah.

31:55.72
Will Grady 
I'm starting to realize from these conversations that a lot of this is all psychological.

32:00.12
futurizm
Okay.

32:00.33
Will Grady 
There's a there's a general anxiety, isn't there, about applying for jobs? There's a general fear.

32:03.78
futurizm
About what you don't know. Yeah.

32:05.88
Will Grady 
Yeah, and then people get carried away with the fear of applicant tracking systems, and how do I how do i optimize my resume for it?

32:09.59
futurizm
Uh-huh.

32:13.74
Will Grady 
Honestly, my my opinion is that you don't optimize your resume for it. um Everyone's like, oh, yeah, but you know the keywords, and you need to make sure you've got the key.

32:21.50
futurizm
ah SEO, search engine optimization.

32:22.68
Will Grady 
Yeah. um I mean, honestly, like i I don't think applicant tracking systems are that sophisticated to be able to you know completely reject you from the process.

32:34.87
Will Grady 
If you apply for a role and you're maybe not meeting the minimum criteria of what they're looking for, yeah, you're you're more than likely will get some kind of automatic rejection.

32:40.95
futurizm
So you're a gardener applying to be a cloud software engineer.

32:51.14
Will Grady 
But optimizing your resume, I just think, you know, be, and I think this is the thing, you know, there's, for example, there's a trend out there at the moment, a lot of data has come back to say that men are very, very confident and overly optimistic when they apply for roles.

33:08.81
Will Grady 
So if they, if they don't meet the criteria of a job, they'll still apply because they're, they're confident.

33:08.83
futurizm
All right.

33:13.90
futurizm
and Okay.

33:16.34
Will Grady 
Whereas females are a lot more conservative. So they want to make sure that actually they are meeting most of the criteria, if not all the criteria of the job um before they actually go and apply. So it's quite interesting. And you know some companies now are changing their views and changing the job descriptions to say, hey, look, you don't need to have everything here, but you know we would welcome applicants that have certain areas of expertise in these particular areas.

33:45.95
Will Grady 
So trying to, there's trends emerging all the time, but my honest answer is about optimizing your resume for applicant tracking systems. Just yeah make sure, yeah, I just think you just look at the job that you're looking to apply for and make a sensible check of actually, do I have the experience or not?

33:55.13
futurizm
Don't worry about it.

34:03.50
Will Grady 
And actually like, I get it, I get it. Sometimes people just want to be opportunistic. Sometimes people think, oh, you know what? I'd really love to do that job. but they're just not qualified in any shape or form.

34:16.07
Will Grady 
And they'll just hit send just for shits and giggles.

34:19.09
futurizm
So speculatively.

34:20.59
Will Grady 
I just just, yeah, there's a lot of speculation, speculation, a lot of speculative applicants out there, but op you know, I just think common sense, simple as that.

34:23.69
futurizm
Yeah.

34:30.40
futurizm
well Well, final question, Will. I am aware we've been banging on about CVs for quite a while now, but one of my biggest bugbears is when companies ask you to upload your CV and then ask you to fill out the exact same information that's in your CV, but in an online application form. Why on earth do they do that? Can you tell me?

34:50.38
Will Grady 
No, you know what? I wish I had the answer myself. Cause it is, it' it's fucking annoying, isn't it? It's like, I've just uploaded my resume, but then what happens is then they pass the information and then they, the information is always passed really badly.

34:54.90
futurizm
Yeah.

35:03.89
futurizm
Yep, yeah formatted incorrectly.

35:04.10
Will Grady 
And then then you, yeah.

35:06.36
futurizm
The dates aren't there.

35:06.62
Will Grady 
yeah Yeah. Honestly, like I got to the stage where when I've applied for jobs and I don't even fill it in anymore, unless it's obviously absolutely mandatory. And I think if I do.

35:20.91
Will Grady 
I'll just put like NA, because I know that when that information goes through to the recruiter, they're not even going to look at that. The only thing a recruiter is going to look at is the PDF of your resume. They're not going to look at all that information. I don't know why it's that. Honestly, I wish I had the answer. ah It's ridiculous. So honestly, anybody that wants to streamline the process, just literally don't fill it in. But if it ask asks for mandatory or it's required,

35:48.25
futurizm
Yeah, yeah.

35:48.84
Will Grady 
is put NA for every single bit and just make sure you attach your resume. And honestly, they they won't discount you on that basis.

35:55.29
futurizm
Interesting.

35:56.11
Will Grady 
I promise.

35:57.53
futurizm
That's a valuable bit of insider knowledge, Will. I'll definitely remember that next time I'm applying for a job. um Well, I mean, that was a really comprehensive chat, Will.

36:07.57
futurizm
Thanks so much for that. Do you think there's anything that I've missed or is there anything you want to add before we move on?

36:14.58
Will Grady 
I think probably, Just going back to reflect on some of the questions that you asked about yeah what top tips out there to help you and trends. So I would say at this moment, because of AI and the obviously rapidly evolving world of AI that we're living in, and again, we're all scared and it's all going to be lead to stories and um ah myths around this. But it's a fair assessment that, you know, I would say lots of people

36:46.14
Will Grady 
And you know what, I don't think there's anything wrong with people using AI as an enabler to help them form the foundations of their resume. There's nothing wrong with that.

36:55.72
futurizm
Right.

36:56.92
Will Grady 
Absolutely not. But then obviously, don't just let AI do it all for you because it does get noticed. it's It's quite easy to notice as well.

37:07.35
futurizm
Yes. Yeah.

37:08.31
Will Grady 
um But actually, I think in that rapidly kind evolving world of AI, the importance of being human, the importance of using language that is normal and and you know rational is really, really important. And you know it gains empathy and engagement from the reader. And you still have to remember that you know you are talking to a human um when you send your document. So I just think my top tip really would be to try and make your language

37:42.99
Will Grady 
just normalized and human and in you know conversational.

37:44.87
futurizm
Yeah.

37:47.92
Will Grady 
um You've probably seen my big bug bear is words like energized, transformed.

37:54.46
futurizm
yeah Passionate.

37:55.85
Will Grady 
I mean, and but when when do you so when do you wake up in the morning after ah after a good sleep and go, hey, honey, I'm energized?

37:59.95
futurizm
ah No.

38:04.08
Will Grady 
you just you just You just don't, do you? When do you use that in normal everyday conversation? You don't.

38:09.20
futurizm
No, you don't. No one says that. It's it's a buzzword. It's it's yeah.

38:14.57
Will Grady 
So get rid of these buzzwords. Um, and just, yeah, just, just try and focus on engaging with a human being. Don't write the resume as well for yourself because lots of people who are technical, you put, Oh, I've got to write this technical, this, and I've got to get this in and write it for the person who's going to be reading it. And most of the time, the person that's going to be reading your resume will be non-technical. There'll be a recruiter like me.

38:41.91
Will Grady 
And they just want to have a human conversation. But also, I think the most important thing, articulate your achievements.

38:46.13
futurizm
Mm hmm.

38:49.56
Will Grady 
And if you stick by that stuff, I think you' you know you've you've got a good foundation there of a resume.

38:57.53
futurizm
well Well, thanks again, a very comprehensive discussion on CVs or resumes there.

39:01.70
Will Grady 
I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted after that.

39:03.42
futurizm
yeah it's It's good to know that the human touch is still appreciated in in a world of AI. um And we really hope that you found this discussion useful. Who knows? It could be the difference between getting an interview or not. And if you do want, Will, to review your CV or completely rewrite it from scratch, you know where we are. I'll leave a link in the description so you can book a 15-minute consultation absolutely free of charge.

39:38.67
futurizm
Right, so you've polished your resume to a glistening shine, the twinkles caught the eye of the recruiter, and you've landed a job interview. Great! Or maybe not if these guys are conducting it, because I've come across three unconventional tactics used by bosses designed to trip up unwitting candidates.

39:58.21
futurizm
Will, you've seen these articles in Unilad, that well-known HR resource, and I just want to go through them with you one by one and get your take on them. But first of all, what's the most unusual interview technique that you know or you've used yourself?

40:15.22
Will Grady 
I'm just, I'm still laughing at our kind of wealth of top quality resources of Unilad.

40:16.08
futurizm
yeah

40:22.29
futurizm
I don't. yeah

40:24.16
Will Grady 
It's not the Harvard Business Review anymore, is it? It's Unilad.

40:27.17
futurizm
Yeah, yeah it's not it's not the business insider that we've used the past two episodes, no.

40:32.88
Will Grady 
Okay, so question is, what's the most bizarre interview process or question?

40:36.71
futurizm
yet interviewed technique that you know of excuse me Interview technique that you know of that you've employed yourself.

40:41.27
Will Grady 
Hmm.

40:46.89
Will Grady 
Hmm. So interview techniques that I've seen I mean, interestingly, it's it's ah it's a difficult one because most of the organizations that I've worked for, and actually this, this kind of kills the fun in an interview sometimes because I've sat in so many interviews and and been really candid, they can get quite boring because

41:13.26
futurizm
yeah

41:15.08
Will Grady 
a lot of the time you're asking the same questions. And actually, most of the interviews with yeah Google, Amazon, VP, Meta, they're all kind of predetermined questions that you have to ask to, and that will be against the values of the company and what they hold dear to them.

41:33.59
futurizm
Yeah. Mm hmm.

41:36.60
Will Grady 
So there isn't much room for creativity in those type of organizations. I think it gets more fun when you're working for, you know, maybe you're interviewing at a startup or a company that doesn't have maybe the all these processes in place already.

41:52.47
futurizm
Yeah.

41:53.47
Will Grady 
I suppose probably the weirdest situation that I've been in was then actually, and this is odd as well, because I actually worked at, I was working at BP and they were, I was working at the time or supporting the retail part of the business.

42:08.36
Will Grady 
So all like the fuel stations and all that. And they wanted somebody to come in and create all their the food for them. Not actually cook it in the petrol station that I have.

42:19.82
futurizm
but

42:24.23
Will Grady 
But actually just do it.

42:28.73
Will Grady 
yeah Stop giggling.

42:31.17
futurizm
All right, sorry, just tickle me that one.

42:33.96
Will Grady 
But they wanted somebody to like develop like a be basically like a food development kind of person. So who kind of creates usually these people are like top chefs and background, but then they'll go and work the supermarkets and create like a food offer for them.

42:43.53
futurizm
Okay.

42:47.41
Will Grady 
And all they what they did is they asked the guys to turn up for this interview to kind of share all their ideas about crazy food ideas that they thought could be used at BP garage.

43:02.26
Will Grady 
And it was so, and it was so funny because one of these guys turned up and he was talking about, yeah, ex chef.

43:02.57
futurizm
That's weird.

43:10.73
Will Grady 
And he was like, and his idea was he wanted to create, and I don't know if our sort of non-UK viewers are aware of what a Cornish pasty is, but it's kind of like a empanada, isn't it?

43:25.81
Will Grady 
It's kind of like a, like a paste.

43:26.20
futurizm
Yeah, similar.

43:27.73
Will Grady 
Yeah. Like a big empanada.

43:29.09
futurizm
Like a meat-filled pastry, yeah.

43:31.33
Will Grady 
Exactly. What he wanted to do, and if any of our viewers or listeners should I say, dig this idea, let us know. but And I know our American friends like the kind of sweet and salty kind of thing going on.

43:47.39
Will Grady 
But he wanted to have an empanada or a Cornish pasty, as we would say in the UK, with meat in one side and then and then like custard and ice cream in the other.

43:57.07
futurizm
Oh, what? That's so weird.

43:59.31
Will Grady 
as needless to say, didn't get the job.

44:02.22
futurizm
And the bit in the middle looks like a mixture of both of them.

44:02.91
Will Grady 
But yeah, I mean, maybe people dig that, but like, ah I wasn't feeling it.

44:09.86
futurizm
Yeah, nah.

44:09.99
Will Grady 
But honestly, I'm sorry, I can't give you too many kind of answers around that, because I've not, um I've been, basically, I've been in constrained in such a corporate environment, there's never been any ability to be able to go and do too many weird interviews.

44:22.76
futurizm
ah

44:25.10
Will Grady 
That was probably the weirdest it got.

44:26.99
futurizm
Okay, well I'm about to give you some weird ones, now Will for your take. And the first one is the coffee cup conundrum, where basically this boss, he takes the candidate for a walk around the office and he stops off at the kitchens and then they go back to have the interview and at the end of the interview he then sees if the candidate takes the empty cup back to the kitchen and if they don't, they're not the right fit for the company.

44:52.81
futurizm
Now his reasoning for this is you can develop skills, you can gain knowledge and experience, but it really does come down to attitude. And the attitude that we talk a lot about is the concept of wash your coffee cup.

45:05.86
futurizm
Now, do you think that's a fair test?

45:05.99
Will Grady 
and

45:08.38
futurizm
There's obviously a lot to be said for fitting into a company's culture and not expecting the cleaner to tidy up after you. But, you know, a job interview is stressful and you might be too focused on nailing the questions than what to do with an empty cup.

45:20.83
futurizm
And it might be the least of the concerns or just slip your mind completely.

45:27.07
Will Grady 
What a load of bollocks. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, look, I mean, we've all been to lots of interviews.

45:28.53
futurizm
but

45:33.56
Will Grady 
Yeah. What about hospitality? What about you're a guest? So, you know, if you're a guest in a restaurant, I mean, you don't work there yet. I mean, it's very different, isn't it? It's blurred lines.

45:44.94
futurizm
Yeah.

45:45.12
Will Grady 
You're not you're not an employee there. You're a guest. And they've invited you to be there. So and they've given you a coffee. And, you know, I'm sure people aren't just kind of like, you know,

45:56.22
Will Grady 
throw in the coffee to one side of the of the room and just, you know, making a mess and just causing chaos.

46:01.50
futurizm
yeah Yeah.

46:01.88
Will Grady 
i'm sure I'm sure they're just probably leaving their coffee cup and going out because they're theyre they're a guest.

46:07.25
futurizm
On the interview table or something.

46:10.33
Will Grady 
If they're a part of the business, that's very different, but they're not part of the business.

46:10.55
futurizm
Yeah.

46:14.16
Will Grady 
So I think that's bullshit.

46:15.79
futurizm
Okay, next one. Then that's the salt and pepper test. There's a Reddit user that claims that his boss used to take candidates out for lunch as part of an all-day interview and apparently then he'd base his entire hiring decision on whether the interviewee tried their food before using the salt and pepper.

46:36.31
futurizm
Now, I don't know if you know this about me, Will, but I absolutely love freshly ground pepper. One of my exes even got me a pepper grinder as a birthday present and I was well happy.

46:45.57
Will Grady 
Wow.

46:46.94
futurizm
And on the rare occasion that I'm in a restaurant where the waiter offers to put pepper on your food, I tell them, that's fine, thank you. Actually, quite a long time before I actually want them to stop putting pepper on my food.

46:57.96
futurizm
So I basically stand no chance in this interview. Do you think there's any value to judging people on what may at first glance seem to be such a trivial decision? Salt and pepper decision.

47:12.69
Will Grady 
Um, what the fuck? Uh, I think, I mean, I've got to add to a really short sweep, but no, I mean, what's the, I mean, what do we, do we have any context about what company this was or what kind of role it was?

47:21.51
futurizm
No.

47:29.49
Will Grady 
I'm curious. Do we, do we have any more context about that?

47:32.25
futurizm
I'm not too sure on the role of the company. I'm not too sure the Reddit user elaborated, but the guy who was interviewing, this was his reasoning behind it. He'd say that the man, I guess all women who tasted his food before salting it was probably a thoughtful person, the kind of guy who measures twice and cuts once.

47:50.55
futurizm
He most likely wasn't one to jump without looking or put the company in danger with any risky decision that he hadn't considered in full, including lunch.

48:00.37
Will Grady 
Fucking hell. Sounds like they'd wear a crash helmet or something whilst they were on a peloton.

48:01.05
futurizm
I don't know.

48:04.93
futurizm
Yeah. Some guy you want to hire in this company.

48:07.28
Will Grady 
just my yeah oh yeah was it Yeah, it must have been an insurance business or something, surely.

48:13.60
futurizm
Yeah, maybe.

48:13.95
Will Grady 
Mate, I mean, ridiculous. yeah ridiculous Next one.

48:17.53
futurizm
Last one, the late night text message. The head of an executive search firm in Houston sends the following message at 10pm. He says, hey, candidate, this is Ben. I work at Vanderbloemann and I was out of the office today. I heard you were there, heard everyone was really impressed with you. I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you. I would love to connect with you sometime. Hope that can work.

48:41.30
futurizm
Now this guy said that he invented this test to see how quickly people respond and if they're a good fit for the company. So if you get back quickly, it could improve your odds. But if you don't, it's not quite as life or death as the salt and pepper test. Apparently, if you respond within 24 hours, that's considered to be quite good.

48:59.37
futurizm
But still, 10pm's quite late. For me especially, I mean, sometimes i't already right sometimes I'm already waiting to go into bed around 8 in the evening, so, you know, rock and roll me. But how much do you think you can read into the responsiveness of a candidate in this context to a late night text?

49:15.55
Will Grady 
Well, I think it's interesting, isn't it, that that the we've got some context there about the business, it's an executive search firm.

49:22.59
futurizm
Yeah.

49:23.33
Will Grady 
So, yeah, I mean, I'm gonna say that time is money, to a certain extent for them. So obviously, they value speed, um you know, and and communication, because, you know, ultimately, they're talking to candidates, they're talking to clients, it's competitive, it's a fast moving market.

49:35.09
futurizm
Yeah.

49:46.41
Will Grady 
but feels a bit intrusive.

49:49.76
futurizm
Yeah.

49:50.25
Will Grady 
I understand it doesn't completely, I mean, let me put it like this. If I've gone for a job interview and I get a text message at 10 p.m. from, is it the owner, you say, or the CEO, who's gonna say, yeah, and they say, hey, look, you had a great interview, I'd love to catch up with you.

50:01.95
futurizm
ah Yeah. The recruit is all something. Um, yeah.

50:09.89
Will Grady 
If I get that text message at that time and I'm awake, I'm probably going to respond.

50:17.34
futurizm
Well, yeah, if you would want to, wouldn't you?

50:17.61
Will Grady 
ah Yeah. Cause you know, you just had an interview and you it sounds like you've had some positive feedback. So if you see it and you don't respond, it's a bit odd, um, unless you're sleeping, obviously, but then you don't see it.

50:30.77
futurizm
Yeah.

50:31.19
Will Grady 
yeah So ah it's just like, but I don't know, like, I think I'd be so elated that I've got good feedback that I just respond.

50:31.63
futurizm
Then you do it in the morning.

50:40.00
Will Grady 
Um, if it's right or wrong.

50:40.26
futurizm
Yeah.

50:42.39
Will Grady 
I wouldn't care if it's good feedback. If someone sends me a message at 10 p.m. and says, hey, Will, you were shit today.

50:48.49
futurizm
Your bellend.

50:49.55
Will Grady 
Yeah, you're you're absolutely you're absolutely shit. um Don't come back for the next interview or basically sorry, you weren't i they'd be like, well, why are you sending me that 10 o'clock?

50:58.89
futurizm
Yeah, then you won't be able to sleep because you'd be pissed off.

50:59.75
Will Grady 
But based. Yeah, but basically, because it's good news, you don't care, do you?

51:06.09
futurizm
No, if you're awake. Well, I'm glad we got to the bottom of that. We've established that most of those interview techniques are bollocks with maybe the exception of the last one that might have a bit of value.

51:11.25
Will Grady 
ah the

51:20.66
futurizm
Yep, yep. Is it all right? ah Yeah, okay. so but An outro.

51:23.47
Will Grady 
Sorry, i thought I thought you were going to do an outro or something.

51:27.42
futurizm
Yeah, i didn't you know what?

51:27.82
Will Grady 
yeah

51:29.08
futurizm
I didn't write one, so I couldn't think of anything to say. so yeah So yeah, I'll do the transition.

51:34.27
Will Grady 
Fair

51:42.50
futurizm
well Well, certainly a mammoth episode of the podcast. How are you feeling?

51:50.01
Will Grady 
um so i mean I'm still contemplating about all these weird interviews, that's odd.

51:56.20
Will Grady 
I'd imagine this still goes on, yeah this this all this stuff.

51:58.27
futurizm
Well, there was one. Do you remember one, actually, during the discussion that came to mind? I think it was for a student union. and I can't remember the university, but it was in the UK. And they made the candidates walk around and pretend they were cows. I think they were humiliated. yeah yeah yeah I was asked to crawl on the floor and moo like a cow. Applicants revealed for their worst job interview experiences. Yeah.

52:17.60
Will Grady 
Well, if we reflect on that, actually, so when I started my career, and I won't leave any specific names or anything like that, but when I when I started my career, the director that I went for interview with is my my first job.

52:35.56
Will Grady 
I think I think he pretty much hired me because I like football.

52:41.30
Will Grady 
Because I went into that interview.

52:42.14
futurizm
I'd have been screwed then.

52:43.56
Will Grady 
Yeah, mate, you made it last two minutes, mate. And you're living out, sorry, can you please leave? um Particularly knowing you, you definitely have left a coffee cup.

52:49.59
futurizm
yeah

52:54.50
Will Grady 
But basically, yeah, I just basically went into the interview. um It was pretty bad because he asked me what I knew about the business. And I said that they were in IT and I was like, Oh, yeah, you're an IT company.

53:09.62
Will Grady 
And he was like, No, no, we're not we're an oil and gas company. And I was like, And I was kind of like, Oh, this will go home then, you know, um, and then he kind of like overlooked that faux pas from me.

53:17.23
futurizm
Yeah!

53:23.40
Will Grady 
And then basically we just started talking about football and I got the job.

53:28.43
futurizm
Amazing!

53:28.52
Will Grady 
And, and then basically what happened after that is that as this company grew, the whole team grew and it was just full of lads who liked football.

53:28.67
futurizm
said

53:39.45
Will Grady 
um And I think he got to a stage where he started to realize, I've just hired lads that like football. And it was very out it's very alpha male.

53:48.18
futurizm
Yeah. Ooh.

53:49.36
Will Grady 
I mean, we had a great football team, don't get me wrong. But and then after a while, I think he decided, you know what, I've kind of, I think I need to balance balance this out a little bit and be a little bit more inclusive and diverse, which is at the time, not something that was even talked about.

54:03.61
Will Grady 
I mean, we're talking 20 years ago now, by the way.

54:03.56
futurizm
No. And you wouldn't like to be the first, I don't know, non-football lover to enter that team.

54:11.53
Will Grady 
No, and and and there was ah there was a lady that that joined the business and I really felt for her because it was it was like working with a load of cavemen.

54:19.34
futurizm
Oh, Paul, how long did she last?

54:20.18
Will Grady 
I was one of them. She did all right. you know She lasted a while.

54:24.20
futurizm
Yeah.

54:24.46
Will Grady 
she was yeah but Yeah, not yeah and and I think gone are those days now. I mean, I don't know. You know what? Maybe they're not gone. Maybe there are all these kind of alpha male recruitment businesses and I'm sure they probably are, to be fair.

54:37.91
Will Grady 
I'm kind of digressing a little bit here, but it was, ah yeah, interview techniques. I've not given any interview techniques that are completely off-piste, but I would say that, yeah, being hired on because I like football.

54:49.99
Will Grady 
So I will give him a shout out now because because I like football. He actually gave me a job.

54:53.31
futurizm
yeah

54:54.07
Will Grady 
So thank you for that.

54:55.40
futurizm
OK, well, awesome. um I'll try and find some more unusual interview techniques for a future podcast. Well, so to our listeners, thank you so much for staying with us for such a mammoth special episode of the Futurism podcast. We do hope that you found it useful.

55:13.67
futurizm
If you did enjoy this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe and leave a rating and a review. We would really appreciate it. And we'll try to give you a shout out in our next episode. If you have any comments, questions, or feedback, my email address is pete at futurism.io.

55:31.96
futurizm
Well, that's all from me, Peter Scott, and yes, and we'll see you next time.

55:35.04
Will Grady 
Well Grady, thank you.

55:54.70
futurizm
you