The Pay Rise Playbook

This week, we go all out on the dos and don’ts of negotiating a pay rise. From keeping a record of your wins, to non-monetary benefits, Ex Big Tech recruiter Will shares his arsenal of advice, tips and tricks, so that you can walk into that discussion well-armed and ultimately get the compensation you deserve.

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Transcript

00:15.16
futurizm
Hello and thank you for downloading the Futurism podcast with me Peter Scott.

00:20.41
Will Grady 
and be well graded.

00:22.02
futurizm
This week we'll be dissecting the ins and outs, do's and don'ts of negotiating a pay rise at work. I'll be picking ex big tech recruiter Will's brains to equip you with an arsenal of advice, tips and tricks so that you can walk into that discussion well prepared, or if it comes to it, know when to walk. But before that, Will, how's your week going? Have you got anything interesting planned for the weekend?

00:50.05
futurizm
That bad is it.

00:51.41
Will Grady 
Yeah, it's that bad. um So not really. Week has been fine. Weekend is going to be spending time with the little girls, um more than likely wanting to commit suicide in a soft play center.

01:06.76
Will Grady 
um It's not...

01:06.89
futurizm
ah I can imagine that's quite difficult. I think they're designed to keep you fairly safe.

01:17.76
Will Grady 
The funny thing was, actually, I used to take my dad just for fun, just to punish him.

01:22.92
futurizm
what did he Does he like a good soft blade sensor as well?

01:27.75
Will Grady 
But obviously he wants to spend time with the girl, so I used to take him, but after a while people thought he was a paedophile.

01:30.15
futurizm
Yeah.

01:37.13
Will Grady 
He just looked like a really weird old man, lingering around.

01:44.04
futurizm
oh

01:44.86
Will Grady 
know

01:44.93
futurizm
um boy bared from the place center

01:49.80
Will Grady 
Oh, just want to put that out in case he is listening. He doesn't want to be, you know, basically yeah tarred with that brush, shall we say.

01:53.62
futurizm
yeah

01:57.95
Will Grady 
But um no. ah But yeah, he did look a bit odd. So I decided not not to take him anymore.

02:05.86
futurizm
Well, you got an exciting weekend ahead. I see Will at the Soft Play Center. Anything else apart from that?

02:13.56
Will Grady 
a I mean, I've got it's a birthday party. um for one of my daughters, and then it is a play date for another one of my daughters. Actually, I've just got two daughters, not to make out that I've got like 10.

02:27.31
Will Grady 
No, so yeah, a birthday party, a play date, soft play, survival, basically.

02:32.53
futurizm
Survival, yeah. Dad duties.

02:34.89
Will Grady 
Mm-hmm.

02:35.97
futurizm
Awesome. Well, without further ado... Well, without... Deering me.

02:41.88
Will Grady 
you've been spendinged too but You spent too much time with Russia, mate.

02:44.64
futurizm
That's a good start, isn't it? Yeah. Well, without further ado, let's get on with the potty.

02:57.53
futurizm
So salary negotiation. I must admit this is something that I'm not too good at. but it Bloody hell I can't even read. So salary negotiation. I must admit this is something that I'm not too good at. I spent around six years in the same place of work. Learned loads of new skills. Developed as an employee. Won some minor but awards for my work.

03:20.60
futurizm
But my take-home remained completely flat. There are obviously various factors in this, including changing roles quite frequently, politics at work and the lack of a structured pay scale. But it was still galling to see people less qualified and less experienced earning considerably more money than I was.

03:38.30
futurizm
And I can't help but think, Will, that maybe my character and Britishness played a role in this. Obviously, as you know, as Brits, money is culturally something that we're not always too comfortable talking about. Now, you've worked in many countries and with clients from many more. Are we but particularly bad at negotiating pay rises or is it purely down to the individual?

04:01.96
Will Grady 
um Well, I think before we do that, um I think the the six years you mentioned, I think it'd be too hard on yourself. I think you got from four to five stars at McDonald's, didn't you, during that time?

04:12.65
futurizm
I did work my way up the ranks, yeah, but that was not reflected in my pay salary.

04:17.77
Will Grady 
But you did get a free lunch.

04:18.28
futurizm
That's all.

04:19.37
Will Grady 
You did get a free lunch.

04:20.75
futurizm
Yeah, yes, I did. Yes, and I did.

04:25.35
Will Grady 
um So to answer your question, um I mean, i so I think it's a bit of both. I mean, yes, culturally. So obviously when I speak to Americans or North Americans, I think they're just culturally more comfortable talking about money.

04:41.08
futurizm
Okay.

04:42.11
Will Grady 
I know in Europe, and I wouldn't say it's just Britain, I'd say in Europe, we are less open about discussing our financial situation, our salaries and things like that.

04:48.00
futurizm
Mm-hmm.

04:52.55
Will Grady 
I have an American friend here, or a friend of a friend, and ultimately they

04:57.91
futurizm
Okay. So not your friend.

05:00.47
Will Grady 
Well, they've become my friend because of the friend.

05:02.65
futurizm
Yeah.

05:03.25
Will Grady 
You know, kind of like how we became acquainted.

05:03.46
futurizm
Oh. Yeah, true.

05:06.56
Will Grady 
So, you know, don't mock it.

05:07.68
futurizm
All right. I'll take it back. I'll take it back.

05:09.79
Will Grady 
um And basically they and constantly talking about money.

05:16.35
futurizm
Really?

05:16.60
Will Grady 
Yeah, and they're really comfortable about it as well. Like, oh yeah, I've got this salary and I've earned this. and and that I mean, for me, I like to keep it quite private, but unless I've had a few points and then I'll just, you know, quite happy to tell the world that I earn, fuck all.

05:23.54
futurizm
Yeah.

05:29.42
Will Grady 
um but um But no, no and I think, yes, there is a Britishness to it, but I think also as well it is individual. um I think people are intimidated at the prospect of you know asking for more money.

05:44.51
Will Grady 
And you know I think companies have

05:44.98
futurizm
yeah

05:48.77
Will Grady 
you know, this is probably a a continuous theme of what I kind of preach, but you know, they do put themselves on the pedestals and make themselves a little bit um intimidating to kind of challenge on certain things.

06:02.81
Will Grady 
And one of them is actually getting a pay rise. So um yeah, a bit of both, I'd say.

06:05.53
futurizm
Yeah, it certainly is. So what do you think are the most common mistakes people make when they're asking for a pay rise, apart from not doing it at all, that is?

06:18.71
Will Grady 
Yeah, so obviously, yeah, the biggest one is he's not doing nothing that it's not doing anything, should I say. But um I think there's ah there's a variety of ways to go about it, and there's definitely some ways not to go about it. I would say, quite often, you know you've really got to kind of, it's like pitching. It's like building a business case, ultimately. So you need you know hard data. You need evidence. You need to be able to give tangible examples of where you've you know, overachieved or, you know, completely, you know, over sort of met the responsibilities of your job, but gone above and beyond. um And I think people aren't really too thoughtful about that sometimes, I think they will go in there a little bit kind of like, well, you know, I really need, you know, I'm looking at pay rise, and I'm looking to

07:09.61
Will Grady 
you know, I've done this at work, but they're not really, should we say backed up with proper evidence and yeah, I would say do your homework, plan, um you know, literally when you start your new job, you know, document all the times where you feel like you've had, you know, praise or feedback, or you may have feedback from, you know, in written format or business from the business, even if it's anecdotally, you know, sort of verbally,

07:21.71
futurizm
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

07:35.54
Will Grady 
um make a note of it and use that evidence. And I think people just don't, they're just not organised, they go in, they try and pitch a case which is usually quite flimsy and basically get knocked back for a variety of shit reasons from the business.

07:45.93
futurizm
Mm hmm.

07:52.38
futurizm
So it's a case of noting times when I've met, exceeded my targets, um had successes with clients. It's basically you're making a case for yourself. Yeah. And is this something, would you walk in with say a portfolio of achievements and reasons why you deserve this pay rise, the value that you've brought to the business, or is this something that I would then rehearse at home to then pitch to HR, my boss, whoever it is who's in charge of the checkbook.

08:25.18
Will Grady 
i think I think each case is different. um I wouldn't go as far as kind of creating a portfolio. I think he just, you know, used to be quite short, concise and impactful. And I think, you know, the best way to do that is usually through data. um But you could even provide those examples and allow them to review them in their own time and come back to you but just and just kind of give a solid case. I think another thing as well is that people with pay rises is that you know, they sometimes can be a little bit passive aggressive about, you know, going to, you know, look, I need a pay rise or look, I'm looking to, you know, I think I should be getting a pay rise.

09:04.00
Will Grady 
And they might say, and it's common, look, I know that such and such a person in the team is getting this and I'm getting that.

09:09.53
futurizm
Hmm.

09:10.41
Will Grady 
Why is that?

09:10.61
futurizm
Yeah.

09:10.97
Will Grady 
And then that kind of for me isn't probably the most professional way to go and achieve a pay rise. And people do that. And that's, I think, kind of feels a little bit aggressive, feels a little bit,

09:23.65
Will Grady 
a little bit petty.

09:24.19
futurizm
I've been titled as well.

09:24.93
Will Grady 
I'm not saying, yeah, and you know ah but I think as well, yeah know the reason I say it's so individual is because yeah you could be basically ah an overachiever and you you know you're absolutely smashing it and you feel like actually you know, I feel that there's opportunity for me to get a pay rise.

09:45.90
Will Grady 
But I think the best thing for you to do is to probably go and look externally at market data. So let's just say you're are a software engineer, and you're doing excellent work, you've had a great appraisal, you've had great, you know, feedback from the business and you you know, you're smashing it, you know, all the sort of feedback that you're getting.

09:53.95
futurizm
Mhm.

10:05.53
Will Grady 
but you're not getting a pay rise. Now, technically speaking, and you know, for sort of the larger businesses out there, um there will be some kind of pay scale, um you know, and you really shouldn't know where you land in that pay scale, although over time, no, ah you shouldn't know where you are in the pay scale really, um but over time,

10:16.43
futurizm
Mhm. Mhm.

10:24.05
futurizm
You shouldn't know. You shouldn't know.

10:32.90
Will Grady 
this kind of information does come out because people find bits and pieces out, people talk, and you know you might find that actually I know that there's room for maneuver. And this is this is why it's so individual. um So yeah, so you can ask me a question, won't you?

10:48.58
futurizm
Yeah, I've got a couple of questions actually. Yeah, well I guess, are you a fan of paid transparency in companies?

10:53.82
Will Grady 
Yeah, I am.

10:54.55
futurizm
Yeah, so you'd be like bracket C, I'd be bracket C. you you know You know roughly where you are and does that promote, you know, equality within a firm?

11:07.89
Will Grady 
Yeah, I mean, I do. I think, I mean, firstly, you know, when you're advertising jobs, I think having transparency about the the salary is his good. I saw, interestingly, and netflixt Netflix had advertised a role recently in the States. I think it was AI analytics in talent acquisition, like a very senior role.

11:30.46
Will Grady 
And the bracket was enormous. It was like $300,000 to $600,000 per year.

11:36.83
futurizm
Oh my god.

11:37.77
Will Grady 
And it was like, not not not really, but I'll tell you what, they get they're going to get a lot of app but they're going to get a lot of applicants based on that value.

11:37.83
futurizm
It doesn't really give you much information. No! Yes! Double!

11:45.24
futurizm
I might apply for it.

11:46.41
Will Grady 
Yeah, based on that salary.

11:48.66
futurizm
Yeah.

11:48.76
Will Grady 
But again, again it's an emotive topic, but I think being transparent about the pay in terms of brackets is is is good.

11:59.20
futurizm
Mm-hmm.

11:59.53
Will Grady 
um And then I think in addition to that, you know being transparent about that within the business, you don't obviously you don't have to publicly disclose disclose everybody's salary information, but having an idea about ultimately where they're at and where they can get to is is I think quite an important factor for people who want to develop themselves. and um you know So for example, at Amazon, if I was recruiting somebody at Amazon, and quite often it would be quite tough negotiations,

12:30.02
Will Grady 
And you know these people are generally, I've written a lot of people in solution architecture. This is quite a highly paid sort of type of professional.

12:39.92
futurizm
Right.

12:40.34
Will Grady 
And quite often, to be frank, Amazon's money or salaries were good, but they weren't market leading.

12:44.11
futurizm
Mhm.

12:47.18
Will Grady 
They weren't top of the game. And you know there there would be usually a desire from the compensation and benefits team when you were hiring somebody to bring them in in the middle of the a salary range. And the reason that they did that was not because they want to lowball anybody, it was because they want to give that person opportunity to be able to grow their salary during their time. Because if they are at the top end of the salary bracket,

13:19.37
futurizm
Yeah.

13:19.58
Will Grady 
then ultimately they're not going to be able to get pay rises you know at all really within the first year or two unless they're promoted to the next level and then obviously there's a new salary bracket attached to that so

13:32.73
futurizm
That's interesting. Even though they could be worth already the top end of that salary bracket.

13:33.93
Will Grady 
e

13:39.27
futurizm
they might not necessarily start on that because they'd have nowhere else to go.

13:42.56
Will Grady 
Well, they may not unless you have a very frank conversation with them. And sometimes there'd be people who'd be like, look, I need this kind of money to make the move where I'm coming from. And then I'd have to pick up the phone, have the conversation with them and say, well, look, if we're bringing you in, look, I need to be transparent with you that that's going to be really near the top end of the salary bracket.

14:02.00
Will Grady 
and ultimately the only way you're going to be able to increase your total compensation is by getting a promotion which typically would take at least a year and I need to manage your expectations around that.

14:14.82
futurizm
Right. That's very honest of you. I'm sure was that would that be appreciated that honesty by the candidates?

14:22.32
Will Grady 
Yeah, I think so. And I think, I mean, it's, you know, I just think that, you know, when you're looking to recruit people and you're looking to have people make life changing decisions, the minimum thing you can do is give them some transparency, you know, as best as you can.

14:35.72
Will Grady 
And I think managing those expectations and you know potentially setting up a conversation with them, you know, with their new manager as well to kind of have that discussion and reinforce that with them.

14:36.17
futurizm
Mm hmm.

14:48.17
Will Grady 
But at the same time, just saying, like look, nothing's closed for you, but we need to manage expectations that it may be a minimum of a year until you look at you know promotion opportunities.

14:54.91
futurizm
Right.

14:57.34
Will Grady 
Because some people think they can just come in and, oh, yeah, I'll get promoted in six months. you You more than likely won't. um It takes a good three to six months in a big tech business to upscale and learn.

15:11.06
futurizm
Okay, well, three to six months. Is that a reasonable cadence at which to ask for a pay rise? Is there any sort of rule of thumb as to so how frequently you can ask for one?

15:22.96
Will Grady 
think I think ultimately you have an annual review um and you know the annual review, they will factor in a pay rise. um More often than not, when you've had your annual review,

15:37.40
Will Grady 
pay rise is usually, I would say more often than not, it's usually pretty shit, you know, and it's always the budget or, you know, we're getting we're going to hide behind the mystical budget and there's been some force of nature which has kind of intervened here, but let's be honest, that's bullshit.

15:45.17
futurizm
Yeah. Yeah.

15:56.13
Will Grady 
um But I also think as well you can't You don't have to wait for your annual review um you know to get a pay rise. You could potentially, before the annual review comes in, create a pitch or create a case so that when they are reviewing your salary, they're cognizant of all the information that you provided them so that they can take that into reflection in terms of what they allocate you for a pay rise.

16:18.88
futurizm
Interesting.

16:22.34
futurizm
Mm hmm.

16:23.86
Will Grady 
Um, but there are obviously are incidents within the year, you know, not an annual review stage where you may have gone above and beyond consistently. You may, and I would encourage people to check their job description as well, because if they're doing way more than what they're doing on the job description, don't just take it on the chin and go, Oh, well, you know, it's just part and parcel of, you know, my job. Well, it's not because that's why you've got a fucking job description to tell you exactly what your role and responsibilities are.

16:55.19
Will Grady 
um you know And if you're doing more than that, you know you may be managing more people. you may Your team may have expanded from two people to five people. um you know And you may have you know way more responsibilities.

17:07.67
Will Grady 
Again, another reason to then look out and present the job description to to illustrate those changes.

17:11.16
futurizm
Yeah.

17:14.83
futurizm
You've talked a lot in your LinkedIn posts, Will, about knowing when to walk away. Say it's been two, three years, you've asked for a pay rise, you've not got one, there's the mystical budget, whatever. And to me, I must admit, personally, it's always seemed pretty daunting.

17:33.51
futurizm
because I'm one of these people who just thinks that it's best to have a job and an income than not, so you don't have another job lined up. obviously Obviously, the tech industry in particular has seen thousands of layoffs in recent months. At what point do you walk from a job?

17:52.06
Will Grady 
Again, I think it's it's a personal one. um you know There are people out there that are yeah very comfortable with taking risks and there are people out there that aren't and to have kids and families and mortgages to pay and like most of us do.

18:08.08
Will Grady 
um

18:08.05
futurizm
Yeah, that.

18:09.30
Will Grady 
debt, all these other lovely bits and pieces that we that we have in modern day world. But I think probably, you know, I wouldn't encourage anybody to just walk if you um you don't get a pay rise. I think you can strategically plan how you exit the business if you don't get the respect in your pay packet that you deserve.

18:33.76
Will Grady 
um you know so what i would you know What you might want to do is explore the market, start getting your CV or resume out to companies, start having conversations with recruiters.

18:44.30
Will Grady 
And then ultimately, quite interestingly, you you you may go back to your employer and say, well, actually look, you know sorry, you know I didn't get the pay rise that I was looking for. Here's a company that values me more and they're going to pay me.

18:55.80
futurizm
Mm-hmm.

18:57.58
Will Grady 
ah higher salary and then that's where potentially your employer will turn around and go ah don't leave and that's it's so bloody annoying but

19:05.04
futurizm
Ah, it's so, it is, it's so duplicitous. if they're If they're willing to give you a pay rise only when you're going to leave, it means they knew your value and they just didn't pay you it all along.

19:16.77
Will Grady 
that's what companies do it's so common they only ever react

19:19.17
futurizm
Yeah.

19:21.36
Will Grady 
when they have to and ultimately you know they're in a position to kind of counter offer you to stay and the thing is lots of people and I've done it before in the past I've accepted counter offer many many years ago now to stay

19:22.95
futurizm
Yeah.

19:38.90
Will Grady 
Um, um, I dunno if it was the right thing or not, but most people, I think there's a lot of data to suggest this, that people accept counter offers to stay at their company. Usually end up leaving within a year after they've accepted the counter offer.

19:51.07
futurizm
really think it's better better the devil, you know, they think.

19:52.55
Will Grady 
Yeah. Well, I think they just, you know, the, you know, the seeds been planted and, you know, there's a reason why they're looking for a pay rise. And then if they're not acknowledged through that pay rise and valued.

20:05.27
Will Grady 
they start to, you know, their heads get turned, they look elsewhere, they and then they get an offer. And I think, ultimately, yeah, that's, that's, that's what happens. And um it's interesting as well that you'll find if If you have somebody that's worked at a company for a long period of time, you know let's say, I don't know, five years or so, similar to yourself when you're at McDonald's.

20:28.87
Will Grady 
um Nothing wrong with that.

20:29.62
futurizm
Nothing wrong with that.

20:31.79
Will Grady 
um But um basically, you know your your growth, if it let's take your McDonald's example. Let's say you were there for five years and you don't get a pay rise.

20:42.13
futurizm
Yeah.

20:42.53
Will Grady 
I can guarantee you they brought somebody in. same level as yourself. you know For the example, we're going to use McDonald's, but I think we all know it wasn't McDonald's. It was Burger King.

20:55.90
Will Grady 
But ultimately, they're going to bring somebody in externally. And I bet you that person externally earns more money than you, guaranteed.

21:02.02
futurizm
Yeah.

21:02.65
Will Grady 
And it's just like, why don't companies learn? Why don't they pay the people that they've got who have been there for a long time and shown loyalty?

21:05.49
futurizm
Yeah.

21:10.63
futurizm
Loyal.

21:12.16
Will Grady 
Why don't they just pay them what but they what they earn? and um what they should earn sorry and you know so I would advise as well. Checking external data. you know So in the tech world, for example, there's a website called levels.fyi. This is not a plug, by the way. and We've got nothing to do with levels. They're just a good website to check market data to understand what you should be paid, typically, in your area of expertise in the country that you're in um and look at you know what other companies are paying, maybe competitors or similar types of sized business, et cetera, et cetera, in that region.

21:48.25
Will Grady 
So that's always a good way to kind of give you some intelligence. um But we'll say, of course, there are other websites and resources like Glassdoor and things like that.

21:56.35
futurizm
Yeah.

21:58.04
Will Grady 
But also, if you want to be really cheeky, you could speak to ex-employees who used to be at the business and pick their brains a little bit and say, look, you know, I'm in this role at the moment.

22:10.11
Will Grady 
I don't know, I mean, it might be a little bit um discourteous to to to go straight into the money side of things with ex employees.

22:16.10
futurizm
Yeah. Yeah.

22:17.78
Will Grady 
But if you did build a network with people with ex employees, yeah I'd always kind of try and use people who've been in the business for some Intel and and some and some guidance around that as well.

22:29.36
futurizm
Mm hmm. That's all good advice. Now, of course, a pay rise will isn't all about your take home salary necessarily. There are lots of other benefits you can negotiate as part of your contract to make your current or future job more appealing. So as you already mentioned, I get a free meal deal at McDonald's every day. Sorry, Burger King.

22:49.37
futurizm
and can Can you tell me some of the non pay related benefits that could help maybe compensate if you're not at the top tier or top end of that pay bracket?

23:02.59
Will Grady 
Well, in the world of tech, a lot of it tends to come down to stock. um you know So you get stock options within a business. um Again, interestingly, and sorry if I'm digging Amazon out here, because actually I really enjoyed working for Amazon.

23:16.48
Will Grady 
They were great. But one of the things that Amazon do is they give you a lot of stock when you join the business.

23:25.45
futurizm
Mmhmm.

23:26.32
Will Grady 
um Now, that's great if the stock price is doing well. um But if the stock price isn't, and let's face it, you know tech did have ah a bit of a a downfall in 2022, 2023. So basically, what they would do is they would put together a package and go, oh, yeah, well, you're going to get this base salary, and you're going to get you know maybe a sign-on bonus, and we' we'll go into other other sort of benefits in a minute.

23:52.84
Will Grady 
But they'll heavily weight everything on the stock. And then they'll make a prediction and say, well, look, I've forecast over the next five years is that the stock's not going to be worth this. It's going to be worth this. And then they give you this kind of like hypothetical package that is just completely pie in the sky.

24:09.78
futurizm
pulled out of thin air, yeah.

24:11.37
Will Grady 
Yeah. And then you look at it and go, oh, wow. Like, basically, i my I'm going to be earning this in five years time or two years time because the stock price is going to fly. And it doesn't account for any of the kind of fluctuation of the stock market, which is incredibly volatile, and let's face it.

24:26.32
futurizm
Yeah, of course.

24:27.24
Will Grady 
um

24:27.49
futurizm
Yeah. A mugs game trying to predict where it'll be in five years.

24:30.66
Will Grady 
Yeah, so it's just so I would always kind of in negotiations and this is yeah really relevant to the tech sector because there is usually a large allocation of stock that's given to you even from startup all the way through to some of the yeah some of the biggest companies on the planet.

24:47.18
futurizm
Mm hmm.

24:47.52
Will Grady 
I would you know factor that in. And you could what you could probably do is go and check out Amazon or whoever the company are, if they are a publicly listed company, to check where the stock price has been over the last five years and how it has fluctuated.

25:00.43
Will Grady 
And then maybe take a bit of an average on that basis and use that in your negotiation tactic to say, well, look, that's all well and good.

25:04.03
futurizm
Yeah.

25:08.00
Will Grady 
But it does fluctuate. And there's no way I'm going to be earning that in two or three years time unless the stock price explodes and you have a bit of luck. But you know I'd like to have some security around that. And that's why I would like this amount of stock on top of my basic salary, which is more than likely going to be more than what they're offering. And there is usually wiggle room to do that.

25:28.31
futurizm
And if you weren't lucky enough to, say, get stock as part of your compensation package, there'll be other things like paid leave or the ability to to work from home, for example, or paternity leave. What else could you negotiate there, Will?

25:45.40
Will Grady 
Well, I think sign on bonus. um You know, I think if you're leaving an organization, and quite often when people leave organizations, they forfeit. um you know, some of the the benefits that they have at the current organization, they may have stock that is yet to vest, they may have some bonus or something that they're waiting on, um that they, again, they have to um sacrifice to leave. So, you know, quite often, and companies, big companies, for sure, will be aware of this, is that, well, you go to them and say, well, look, I really want to join, but, you know, to make it worth by a while, you know, I need to make you aware that I am going to forfeit this, this, this, and this.

26:25.08
Will Grady 
in terms of fiscal benefits and therefore are you able to support that and companies will know this they delete they totally understand this particularly the big ones and they will then make you maybe a sign-on bonus which is usually a lump sum or paid over you know monthly installments in your first year so you know don't be shy if you can't get your base salary that you want

26:49.38
futurizm
Mm-hmm Okay Well, I know as well will following your links in that one of your pets hates one of your famous Grady gripes our company perks inverted commas that aren't actually perks What do you think our listeners?

26:50.33
Will Grady 
um to obviously look to get compensation around sign-on bonuses or or stock options.

27:13.39
futurizm
all two or three of them should be wise to when it comes to these as you know I worked at Yandex the search engine and one of these perks inverted commas was the 140 quid monthly canteen allowance which you know still having a student loan

27:27.30
Will Grady 
Oh, God.

27:31.20
futurizm
not earning that much I thought was quite cool because I was like well it you know saves me my lunch money but then I realized that I was just taking shorter lunch breaks I maybe take my laptop down to the canteen and do a bit of work and I'm sure that the company actually just recouped this money anyway what else are these perks that aren't actually perks

27:53.72
Will Grady 
Well, I really don't want any company to start promoting that, oh, we have a flexible working policy and therefore you can work from home as a perk.

28:05.05
Will Grady 
I know we're in that in that world now where people are being asked to go back to the office, but at the same time, it's not really a perk, is it?

28:05.25
futurizm
Yeah, okay.

28:13.63
Will Grady 
I mean, it should just be a grown-up decision to allow somebody just to work from home. I don't think it should be used for marketing purposes.

28:20.46
futurizm
Right.

28:20.61
Will Grady 
um pt oh I hate it when they talk about fucking, oh, you can have your birthday off. Oh, for God's sake.

28:26.29
futurizm
ah

28:26.59
Will Grady 
i How old am I? Five, five years old.

28:28.54
futurizm
Yeah, at least then you avoid the awkward office birthday celebration with an awkward standing around with a plastic cup with a half, you know, half full of wine and some supermarket cake that you've brought in.

28:29.03
Will Grady 
Yeah. and

28:35.68
Will Grady 
Yeah.

28:44.64
futurizm
I really, really hate them.

28:45.04
Will Grady 
yeah That's true. so But just just, you know what? Just just don't come in on your birthday. Just work from home.

28:52.21
futurizm
ah

28:53.07
Will Grady 
That would be the best thing to do.

28:53.13
futurizm
Yeah. Yeah.

28:55.07
Will Grady 
But yeah, I also agree. They are quite awkward. um I mean, there's so many, isn't there? I mean, all this fucking bullshit about, oh, yeah, you can use our, I don't know, kind of like, if we have a table tennis, and we have ping pong, snooker tables, and it's like, great, because I'm always gonna get loads of fucking time to do that.

29:09.16
futurizm
Yeah. Whose ball? Yeah.

29:16.11
futurizm
Yeah. Why do you have a sleep?

29:16.46
Will Grady 
And also, yeah, actually, some companies do have sleep pods.

29:18.96
futurizm
Yeah. Yeah.

29:22.38
Will Grady 
I also Google, and I suppose quite not a bad idea, In theory, I never did it myself, but you you had a masseuse.

29:32.70
futurizm
Yeah. Yeah, Yandex had one of those as well.

29:34.38
Will Grady 
Yeah, so, no.

29:34.86
futurizm
I never went. He had a doctor.

29:37.34
Will Grady 
Doctor?

29:38.29
futurizm
Yeah.

29:39.02
Will Grady 
Okay.

29:40.19
futurizm
I'd feel weird sleeping at work. They had showers, which were quite useful if you went in on your bike. I would say that, you know, is a minor perk.

29:49.10
Will Grady 
stop perk now is It's not not a perk.

29:50.88
futurizm
Well, I mean, I mean, if i mean it's better than not having a shower and turning up sweating and not being able to ride in.

29:54.22
Will Grady 
We basically offer we offer hot water. We offer hot water as a park.

29:57.28
futurizm
yeah No, and a cubicle in which you can shower.

30:01.29
Will Grady 
Yeah, brilliant.

30:01.80
futurizm
ah Yeah.

30:03.24
Will Grady 
Sign me up. um because Just imagine on a negotiation, like, yeah, I like the salary. Sign-on bonus is really good. Health insurance, okay, I've got loads of PTO, brilliant.

30:14.83
Will Grady 
um Have you got any showers?

30:17.38
futurizm
It's a deal breaker.

30:18.43
Will Grady 
Yeah, and if you haven't, sorry.

30:21.30
futurizm
Yeah, can you get one installed?

30:21.75
Will Grady 
and

30:23.26
futurizm
ah so

30:26.88
Will Grady 
I have a preference for my favourite shower brand. is Do you know any footpa video you any shower brands?

30:30.94
futurizm
Yeah. I know Xiaomi does basically every everything, like not just mobiles.

30:37.58
Will Grady 
What? Sorry?

30:38.74
futurizm
You know the Chinese firm, Xiaomi, I don't even know how to pronounce it, but they do shower heads.

30:42.12
Will Grady 
So just to clarify, you you you know shower brands, yeah?

30:45.81
futurizm
I actually have a saved showerhead ah in my wish list because I could do with a new one. So I'll let you know if and when I get it and if I try it, if any future employer I'd recommend it to to install in their facilities.

31:01.49
Will Grady 
Is that a shout out to them, by the way? you There's no affiliate marketing good on here, is there?

31:03.45
futurizm
ah No, it's not sponsored. Not sponsored.

31:05.37
Will Grady 
No?

31:05.85
futurizm
No, no, not yet.

31:06.82
Will Grady 
Okay. good but base said yeah but if instead If they're listening, get in touch.

31:08.42
futurizm
ahll picture I'll pitch it to them.

31:12.16
futurizm
yeah

31:14.56
futurizm
Any more perks? Well, anything that we've missed in our discussion about negotiating a pay rise or a perk rise at work?

31:23.14
Will Grady 
I mean, of course, I mean, again, it is so personal. And, you know, I understand that some people aren't going to feel comfortable to do it. And that's why it's really good to almost kind of take, you know, you don't have to be confrontational about this to create a case. And actually, it's quite a therapeutic exercise for you to do that. So you can go and document all your wins. You can obviously have a look at the list of your accomplishments. You know, did you and a major client? Did you solve a a huge problem within the organization? Did you get some particular feedback about going above and beyond?

31:59.18
Will Grady 
get it down on paper. And then when you see that, you probably start to build confidence from that anyway to go, actually, you know what? I've done a lot this year. And actually, you know I'm worth that extra 10 grand or whatever it might be.

32:06.58
futurizm
Mm hmm.

32:11.59
Will Grady 
um And then just practice it. But i wouldn't you don't need to go into enormous detail. um You don't have to be machine gun your boss with, I did this, if this dis this, this, this, this, this, this.

32:24.35
futurizm
No.

32:24.75
Will Grady 
You could just literally go, look, want to have a conversation about my salary. I basically put together a document which kind of details everything about my wins and ultimately my accomplishments of the year and some context and rationale behind why I'm looking for that pay rise. I really appreciate if you could take some time to read it, review it, um either in advance of the meeting that we're going to have or you know, take it and then come back to me, reflect on it and we can have a conversation. that That's kind of how I would do it. You don't have to go in there gonk home. And I think they'll value that way more than kind of almost kind of feeling sometimes like you're putting guns to heads.

33:05.32
futurizm
Yeah, yeah. ah One last thought, Will. Are pay rises in line with inflation something that you can negotiate or to stop you getting a real terms pay decrease every year? Because if you don't get that pay rise in line with inflation, then you're basically losing out every year.

33:25.96
Will Grady 
I suppose it all depends on the level of inflation. And let's face it, the level of inflation over the last year or two has been absolutely awful. isn't now So it's calmed down now in Britain.

33:32.00
futurizm
Yeah, yeah.

33:35.29
Will Grady 
um But I don't know what's the level of inflation in like Argentina. Is it like something like. 50 60% or something ridiculous.

33:40.55
futurizm
dark Yeah, I think it's through the roof. Yeah, yeah.

33:42.85
Will Grady 
Yeah. So I suppose, ultimately, it depends on the level of inflation, but I think, you know, if it's a a you know reasonable moderate rate, you'd be looking for something as a minimum.

33:53.89
futurizm
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

33:55.57
Will Grady 
But, but really, then if you're, that's my point. I mean let's say for example the rate of inflation is about two and a half percent which I think it is kind of in the UK give or take so what you want as a minimum pay rise of 2.5% and let's face it you don't just want your because if you get a pay rise of 2.5% and they're duping you here

34:16.56
futurizm
Yay, treading water.

34:16.77
Will Grady 
He said, well well, actually, yeah, you're not actually getting a any any benefit financially there. So you want 2.5% to cover your inflation and then an additional 3, 4, 5%, depending on you know ultimately what you negotiate and their, obviously, acknowledgement of your performance.

34:37.90
futurizm
well Well, I think that was a pretty comprehensive discussion um about negotiating a pay rise at work. Thanks very much.

34:46.82
Will Grady 
That's all right, any time.

34:54.39
futurizm
I really hope that you found this discussion useful. And who knows, maybe it'll help you get that long awaited pay rise. If it does, or you have some of your own tips and advice, please do let us know at pete at futurism.io, because we'd love to hear them. And for more tips and advice, you can also check out the free Futurism bi-monthly newsletter. It's not too frequent, so we won't fill your inbox with it. And you can find a link to that at the bottom of this episode. Well, in the meantime, that's all from me, Peter Scott, and

35:24.67
Will Grady 
Well, Grady.

35:26.48
futurizm
and we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.